Game of Thrones

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Scrappy
 
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Postby Scrappy » Wed May 11, 2011 6:03 pm

I really don't like the casting of Catelyn. Just not how I imagined her at all. In fact, I think Cerseis actress would have been a perfect fit for her.

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katarn
 
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Postby katarn » Wed May 11, 2011 6:18 pm

I think she's been quite good personally. At least - in terms of taking the TV version by itself she's been good, in that she seems to fit well as Sean Bean's other half. Although her and Ned should have both been a lot younger and fresher based on the books - if they had stuck more closely to the age ranges of the books then yeah maybe Headey could have been a better fit for Catelyn.

But Fairley's good actress and plays the part well I reckon. Jennifer Ehle was initially cast in the pilot but they dropped her.

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Postby deetz » Wed May 11, 2011 6:28 pm

Yeah, I thought she should have been younger to but other than that I thought she's done a great job at portraying Catelyn. She's got the crazily protective mother thing down.

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Postby Yodith » Wed May 11, 2011 7:15 pm

Catelyn is a bit too one-dimensional and weak in the TV series compared to her book personality where she's a tower of strength for so long. Perhaps we will see more of that in the second season but she has been a weak link in an otherwise very strong cast.
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Postby katarn » Wed May 11, 2011 7:57 pm

I think pretty much all the main characters have been rather simplistic & less layered compared to their book versions so far, just as much as Catelyn. But then I suppose it was always going to be so - a TV show is a different beast and has to dilute so much to fit in the major points while still making it work for the audience.

After watching 3 episodes (I'll watch 4 & 5 next week together), I'm desperately trying to disengage my knowledge of the books nearly every scene. It's quality TV, but it's still very hard to know what to make of it.

It's like....on the one hand I'm glad they've done this to put the books more on the map and increase the readership, but on the other hand - as someone who's read the books already - the TV show despite its high quality feels rather irrelevant to me. If that's the word.

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Postby Scrappy » Wed May 11, 2011 9:08 pm

I'm of the opposite opinion. I love seeing all the characters coming to life, all the scenes I've imagine in my head being put on screen. The only problem I have is the fact I've imagine the characters to look and speak completely different from the seres and now I've watched the show, I'm reading the book and imagining the voices as if the character were from the TV series.


Does that make sense?

EDIT: I'm not mocking the actress that plays her, but like a few have said, she's supposed to be the pillar of power when Ned leaves and she just seems a bit too frail at the moment.

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Postby Reiver » Wed May 11, 2011 9:12 pm

Catelyn is definitely one of those characters who has a massive internal monologue in comparison to her actions and her words so i suppose that may be part of the problem with her feeling flat.

I really hate the "fantasy" affectation so many of the actors are delivering their lines with. It's so unnatural and cheesy. Jorah is probably the worst for this, always sounding like he's doing a voice over at the start of the LOTR movies or summat. It's going a long way to making the series feel cheap and cliched when it should be feeling much more grounded and guttural.

A lot of this weeks exposition felt excessive. Did we really need the Viserys bath scene to last that long or for him to name a 101 dragons? They seem to have gone to such pain in the last 3 eps to avoid any of this sort of exposition that to have so many forced feeling info dumps in such a short space of time was very jarring. I understand the need to clarify Theon but was it necessary to go on for so long and in such depth. A quick exchange of "hostage", "no ward" would have acheived the same thign without bogging things down in spurious details that we don't even have in the book by that point.

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Postby Prey » Wed May 11, 2011 9:16 pm

That guy is the best dwarf actor that ever lived!
Lee wrote:Holly fuck who is this above my comment?!


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Postby katarn » Wed May 11, 2011 9:20 pm

Dinklage is a definite highlight of the show, probably the best thing about it.

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Postby The Snot Goblin » Thu May 12, 2011 1:47 pm

I am going to eat Spaceman paninis with black Hitler and there is nothing you can do about it!

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Postby Snowy » Mon May 16, 2011 8:28 am

That is something that jars with me too - GRRM writes in a gritty, earthy manner, so why do the lines delivered by many of the actors have to be so bombastic and pompous in their delivery? Jaime Lannister is fine, total arrogance and self assurance is to be expected, and Ned Stark is shackled to a rigid sense of duty which would cover the ramrod up his arse, but the rest sound stilted and unnatural. This doubly hits home when they swear, as it sounds out of place given the delivery of the surrounding lines.

My other niggle is the horse nation is only ever shown as a small herd rather than an unending horde. Judicious use of CGI would have worked wonders there, even if just to initially give a sense of scale.

In terms of the series not living up to the books, there will always be a finite limit to how much film allows you to tell a story, you will never get the level of detail, the internal monologues etc that makes so much of the written story.
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Postby Reiver » Mon May 16, 2011 3:17 pm

It was a decent enough episode but again i'm stumped by some of the changes and as to why they've made them.

Robert wanting to fight in the joust and not the melee. It's wrong for the TV character and the book character to want to fight with lances and it's not as if the melee isn't mentioned (in the gay scene and council meeting of previous ep).

Littlefinger saying "cut her throat and be done with it" rather than "give her a kiss, a steel kiss" after his "ugly woman metaphor". It's cruder and more simplistic and smacks of change for the sake of it. They also do away with Littlefinger's explanation of how agreeing to kill Dany (whose absence from the ep was a blessing) in the way they do forestalls it. this is such an important thing as it shows both how astute a player of the game Baelish is and how inept Ned is. It's also important in building some of the trust Ned has for Littlefinger. I'd much rather have this scene than the (figurative) willy waving between Varys and Petyr or the (literal) willy waving from Theon.

Lastly there's the Jamie fight.I'm fine with the way they did it although i think them doing away with Jory's sacrifice stripped the scene of at least some of the tragedy and heroism. The spear through the leg works as it's a nice twist on the cliched circle fight from so many films but why not have Ned finish with crawling to Jory? The scene of him cradling him in his arms is one of the most affecting in the book so to skip this pathos for a shot of him on one knee (not even crawling) was just meh.

Twas nice to have the IDs of the two dungeon conspirators confirmed though.

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Postby Yodith » Mon May 16, 2011 10:06 pm

Reiver wrote:It was a decent enough episode but again i'm stumped by some of the changes and as to why they've made them.

Robert wanting to fight in the joust and not the melee. It's wrong for the TV character and the book character to want to fight with lances and it's not as if the melee isn't mentioned (in the gay scene and council meeting of previous ep).


I suspect that the main reason is that Robert is spectacularly unsuited to the joust, while he's certainly beefy enough to hold his own in the melee. Given the role of jousting in knighthood in general, his unsuitability for jousting serves to remind people who haven't read the books how far he has fallen and how badly suited to the kingship he is too.

Personally I really enjoyed the exchange between Littlefinger and Varys and thought that it helped introduce some more subtle plot elements that would have been very difficult to get across in the TV medium otherwise, such as hints that Varys might not be as loyal as you might think and that Littlefinger is very much playing his own game and has dirtier hands than you might think. It was a great scene and one that my girlfriend (who hasn't read the books) got a lot out of it.

I do think that you are being far too over analytical and not taking into account that because of the nature of the medium, the way the story is told has to change. The extra scenes with Theon are clearly setting up his prominent role in ACOK. In the books he is little more than a background character during AGOT and a lot of the backstory is filled in through internal monologues during his early ACOK chapters. I'd expect to see quite a bit more of Theon before the end of this season, especially if we get to see The Whispering Wood, as this will make events that come later all the more shocking.
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Postby deetz » Mon May 16, 2011 10:33 pm

Yodith wrote:Personally I really enjoyed the exchange between Littlefinger and Varys and thought that it helped introduce some more subtle plot elements that would have been very difficult to get across in the TV medium otherwise, such as hints that Varys might not be as loyal as you might think and that Littlefinger is very much playing his own game and has dirtier hands than you might think. It was a great scene and one that my girlfriend (who hasn't read the books) got a lot out of it.


Just finished it now and have to agree with you. That exchange was brilliant. Two men who can't fight with swords using their words :D

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Postby Reiver » Tue May 17, 2011 8:43 am

Two men whose position is almost entirely based on knowing what others don't airing their dirty laundry. It seems very ill judged for either to reveal so much of their hands like that and i feel it weakens the characterisation. The book is great because of the subtleties and a change in medium does not have to abandon them all to go for a more blatant and frankly dumber approach if anything they should be showing us rather than telling in a TV show. I'd prefer stage whispers than this.

I may be over analytical but i'm really trying to justify my sentiments with specifics rather than a wooly "i feel that...". I can see exactly what they're doing with Theon and to an extent most of the other characters but i think it's clumsy and artless exposition for the most part. It's also a topic that has been squirmingly covered at least 4 or 5 times. It's not a terrible series but it doesn't do the books justice and pales in comparison to shows like Rome and Deadwood. I'm watching the Borgias at the same time as this and while it's far from excellent it's a much, much slicker and more competent production than this.

I'd expect to see quite a bit more of Theon before the end of this season, especially if we get to see The Whispering Wood, as this will make events that come later all the more shocking.

You see i think the exact opposite. They've over egged the pudding to the extent that Theon's betrayal seems inevitable now. hell even the whores are taunting him. Spending time on his relationship with Robb would have the effect you're talking about not having everyone laugh at him being a hostage and at odds with the Starks.

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