Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

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Medicine Man
 
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Medicine Man » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:32 am

Agreed. I found the whole thing rancid. Maybe I'm just getting old, but man, the trend of fetishsizing violence to sell videogames leaves me feeling sick to my very core.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Raid » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 am

I think the issue is that games, unlike any other form of media other than a choose-your-own-adventure book, give the consumer agency - if you want, you can be a character that allows child abuse to happen in Detroit, that's what the trailer is saying, and I imagine a lot of people will find that quite distasteful. I don't necessarily think that it's a subject that shouldn't be present in gaming (although it certainly isn't something I want to see in my games), but using it as a selling point just feels a bit wrong. There must be hundreds of moral choices to make in the game, why use that?

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:22 am

I think a large part of the problem with AAA games dealing with difficult or upsetting subject matter isn't anything to do with morality or choice - it's the cost/risk trade-off. First, in terms of storytelling I don't believe anything should be off limits if its important to the story. If I read a book or watch a film and the subject matter goes beyond my comfort zone to the point where I abandon it, I don't blame the story (or writer) for that - it's simply a story I choose not to engage with. The difference with games is that I've probably paid a lot more than I would have to read a book or watch a film, and I might feel cheated if it's not something I feel comfortable continuing with. An indie game for a fiver that deals with difficult stuff is a lot more palatable than a £30-40 AAA game that I choose to abandon.

That's not to say the impact of choice in those sort of games isn't important or interesting, because it's both of those. But when David Cage starts putting child abuse in something that's presumably going to cost a fair whack, I'm not sure it's worth the investment. Actually when it comes to child abuse I don't want to play a game that involves that at any price, but substitute that for most other horrible subjects and my point probably stands.
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Raid » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:35 am

Yeah, that's a valid point.

For me personally, I just don't see the attraction of handling this sort of material in videogames. If I want stories of child abuse, or rape, or racism, or any number of countless dreadful things, I can just turn on the news and be reminded of how fucking awful the world can be. I sure as hell don't want to be involved in it, virtual or not.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:58 am

True, we need more joyful games like Mario Odyssey! Although even that lets you impose complete mental domination on unwilling creatures that you then lead to their undignified death... :(
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby DjchunKfunK » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:43 am

PS Plus games for November.

Worms Battlegrounds (PS4)
Bound (PS4/PS VR)
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood (PS Plus bonus – PS VR Required)
That’s You! (PS Plus bonus – PlayLink)
R-Type Dimensions (PS3)
Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic (PS3)
Dungeon Punks (PS Vita & PS4)
Broken Sword 5: The Serpent’s Curse [Ep. 1 & 2] (PS Vita)
Check out my new gaming blog Player State. Updated every Wednesday.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Mantis » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:15 am

Raid wrote:Yeah, that's a valid point.

For me personally, I just don't see the attraction of handling this sort of material in videogames. If I want stories of child abuse, or rape, or racism, or any number of countless dreadful things, I can just turn on the news and be reminded of how fucking awful the world can be. I sure as hell don't want to be involved in it, virtual or not.


Where's the harm in having more choice though? Some of us wouldnt mind the idea of a game making us feel physically uncomfortable or psychologically traumatised in some way, movies have been doing it for years.

The fact that you don't want to be involved in a virtual simulation of child abuse but likely are happy playing other games where you murder people is an interesting aspect. It suggests in some way that child abuse is worse than murder, which is a rather dubious stance to take, but then that's your personal line in the sand. Just in the same way that Cage has a line when it comes to what he feels comfortable making. Ultimately just because you don't feel comfortable with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be made.

Games have been glorifying awful aspects of humanity for years, to stop people from trying to branch out and tell different stories with the medium is simply preventing it from growing.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Raid » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Did you miss the bit where I said personal preference? If you want this style of game I'm not going to hold it against you, nor do I think it shouldn't be published. I think it's worth considering the moral implications, but I'm not outright saying themes like this shouldn't be used.

And regards murder versus child abuse; it's all about the depiction. Looking at the games I'm playing at the moment; Mario Odyssey, Mechwarrior Online, Enter the Gungeon, Stardew Valley; they're hardly going to trigger the same response. My mental state is fragile at the best of times these days, and the last thing I want is to expose myself to one of the most depressing subject matters I've seen represented to this extent in a game. When I destroy a Mech's center torso or stomp a goomba, the game isn't trying to make me consider the horrors of what's happening, it's simply a game mechanic, whereas in Detroit the emotional connection appears to be key to the experience.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Mantis » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:35 pm

Emotional connection is probably a good way of defining it. Personally I'm getting a bit bored of games where the extent it engages you is 'jump on this, run over here, throw this item'. I'm craving something more interesting to really grip me with a game, regardless of how harrowing it is.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Wrathbone » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:39 pm

Mantis wrote:The fact that you don't want to be involved in a virtual simulation of child abuse but likely are happy playing other games where you murder people is an interesting aspect. It suggests in some way that child abuse is worse than murder, which is a rather dubious stance to take, but then that's your personal line in the sand.


I thought about this yesterday when writing my posts and I don't have a good answer for it. The fact is I play games where I frequently murder people, and I'm usually fine with that - in some cases it can even be darkly comedic (e.g. Hitman). I can't imagine a game in which I become fine with my character committing child abuse, let alone where that becomes remotely amusing. As to why I (and presumably others) draw that line and where that line is, I have no idea. It's an interesting conundrum that deserves further exploration, and games which deal with those subjects may be the way to do that.

I think context may be part of it. In Hitman, for instance, your targets are generally (not always) criminals or nasty people who probably deserve what they get. I do feel bad if 47 kills anyone clearly innocent. With child abuse, there is no justification (dubious or otherwise) for those actions, ever.
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby Subway Diet » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:03 pm

I Don’t Trust David Cage to Tackle Domestic Violence in 'Detroit'
At one point in that interview, Cage asks: "Would you ask this question to a film director, or to a writer?" It comes off as defensive, and it suggests a view of art where being an artist means being subject to less criticism; a view where film directors or novelists are not interrogated like he's being interrogated, because they're taken seriously. Cage seems desperate for games to be taken seriously. What he's experiencing in that interview is video games being taken seriously.

Being an artist is the opposite of a free pass. To be taken seriously means to be interrogated. To be taken seriously means that what we do as game developers and writers can and should be put under a microscope. You can't grow up without accepting responsibilities, and video games are long out of their infancy. Being given that responsibility, being subjected to that interrogation, is what allows us to move forward with the medium. You can't iterate, in your own game, without passing judgment on what you did earlier in the process. The medium as a whole can't iterate without that component of judgment.


https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article ... come-human

More or less sums my thoughts up on the matter. Cage can tackle whatever subject he wants, but based on his tract record, I don't imagine it'll be done tactfully.
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby DjchunKfunK » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:57 pm

I think to a certain extent Cage is right, a film director or author would have been asked in a different way if they were making something around child abuse. The way the question is posed is inflammatory and in such a way as to provoke a reaction. The piece itself even references another interview with a designer making a game about abuse.

What led you to the point where you decided that you wanted to make a game about something so specifically personal?


The style and tone of that question is completely different. I don't have a problem with an interviewer questioning why someone chose to focus on domestic abuse, but I feel that is a different question to the one posed in the Eurogamer interview. The Eurogamer interviewer was basically saying "You are just making this for shock value aren't you?"

Cage has a spotty track record it is true, but I'm not sure whether that is because of who he is or whether it is just very hard to tackle these issues in a game. Take the move control issue, because it is a game there is a belief that you need to add in interactions, and you could say the whole choice system is a gameplay conceit as well, something there to separate it as a game from a film, which it would be more like if that whole part of the game was just a cut scene.

These types of issues can be tackled in games, but I think they have to be certain types of games and I'm not sure the types of games Cage wants to make lend themselves to the issues he wants to tackle. It's like someone trying to make a Nation Lampoon film about child abuse.
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby DjchunKfunK » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:42 am

PSN Black Friday sale has started for those with a Plus account, although the site is struggling at the moment. Highlights include the folowing

Nioh £20.99
Horizons £24.99
Uncharted: The Lost Legecay £14.99
Nier: Automata £29.99

Oh and Gran Turismo Sport must have bombed as it's on sale for half price and it only came out a few weeks ago.
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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:10 pm

Another stellar set of PSN Plus games next month the headline games are Darksiders 2 and Kung Fu Panda.
Check out my new gaming blog Player State. Updated every Wednesday.

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Re: Sony Playstation Computer Consoles By Sony

Postby eVoL » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:04 pm

I just bought darksiders2! :x
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