London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Exciting adventures in meat space.
User avatar
Mantis
Admin
 
Posts: 26571
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: Nobody's Here

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Mantis » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:53 pm

It started at 1am in the morning on the 4th floor. There's 24 floors in the building. There's definitely going to be at least 100 casualties.

Every time they announce a higher figure I think about how terrifying it must be to die like that. Horrifying.

User avatar
Jez
 
Posts: 11131
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:35 am
Location: worcestershire

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Jez » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:00 pm

Quietman wrote:
Jez wrote:Let be fair here about that picture. That's going to be a hand picked and very small group under very watchful and many eyes. If May did that then you guys would be calling her for it. She can't do right for doing wrong deservedly or not.


And why couldn't May meet with an equally hand picked collection of survivors? Regardless of what the reaction would be it would be a damn sight better than how she did handle it.


Because then Phil my friend she would have been seen as cynically avoiding meeting the residents behind a controlled group. There's no win here for any PM really. Did the she go to the hospital without press anyway...it's something.

The main issue now is why regulation like the US and Germany for instance hasn't been brought in where buildings over 15 and 22 metres respectively must have fire proof cladding. That's a disgrace really by the renovators saving 5k on this sort of thing. I suppose they were working to the councils specification who would have commissioned the work in the first place.

User avatar
Raid
Duke of Preys-World
 
Posts: 24708
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Ding!

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Raid » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:00 pm

May visited a church to meet some affected residents today. Given her, shall we say, faux pas where she didn't meet residents yesterday, she was met with a somewhat hostile reception.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 94106.html

I can't decide what will do more damage at this point; May visiting or May not visiting. It feels like people are just one bad decision away from rioting.

User avatar
Mantis
Admin
 
Posts: 26571
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: Nobody's Here

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Mantis » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:09 pm

That's a decade of slipping living standards boiling up.

If things are like this now, what happens when Brexit hits hard, or if there's another terrorist attack or similar tragedy?

Enough is enough already though really. The Tories are indirectly responsible for this because they blocked the safety legislation going through. Kids being thrown out of windows to save them from the flames is just shocking imagery. One of the comments on that Independent article sums it up pretty aptly:

Spoiler: show
I suspect this is the fury of decades of pent up anger at those that create poverty just so the rich can have another bottle of Bolly.

The anger was directed at the EU by the MSM but the people are starting to twig.

The GE and the rise of a socialist alternative to relentless austerity and the lies of 'trickle down'.

This fire is the spark that will change UK politics. The right had best get used to it.

These people died because they were ignored when they had safety concerns. Who should have seen to these concerns? Who has ultimate responsibility for the safety of the people?

User avatar
DjchunKfunK
 
Posts: 23964
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:52 pm

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby DjchunKfunK » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:34 pm

Just a few points on some of the stuff posted.

There appears to be conflicting reports about whether the cladding used on the building is illegal on buildings of that size. Hammond said it was, but I read in the paper today that an official was claiming it hasn't been outlawed.

The reason why the government is getting such stick is because of a number of things. Firstly they are the ones in charge and are the ones who have spent 7 years preaching that austerity is amazing and even longer that privatisation is great. So when a private company is seen to have caused harm through supposed corner cutting to save money then the Tories are going to get it in the neck. Secondly there have been a number of reports into fire safety for buildings of this kind since they have been in power and they haven't been acted on. Finally the governments response to the situation has been awful, it took far too long to find people places to stay, survivors had to go to multiple places to get the help they needed and even now there is not a clear first point of contact for people to go to. As soon as the scale of the crisis was known which was around mid morning the government should have taken charge.

So you have the historical issues that have possible led to this horrific incident occurring added to the incompetent handling of the situation. Put together and it's no surprise that May is getting so much criticism.

As for the security issue, bear in mind that the people only got angry after she choose not to come and see them. If she had gone seen the survivors in the first place then she wouldn't have been faced with an 'angry mob'. Security concerns was just a poor excuse to allow May to avoid interacting with people.

On your point on one staircase Mantis, I think I posted this before, but these blocks are designed in such a way that the fire is contained within the flat so people don't need to evacuate and the fire services can reach the area effected without getting blocked by people evacuating and then assess who needs to be evacuated. In this instance the containment failed for some reason and the smoke also breached the stairwell which it shouldn't have been able to do.

Even modern buildings are designed with one core spine running through the building which houses the services, lifts and staircases. The design is not a fire risk, it is the improper construction/maintenance of the fire prevention systems that is at fault.
Check out my new gaming blog Player State. Updated every Wednesday.

User avatar
Prey
Admin
 
Posts: 9205
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:16 pm
Location: Ghosting Motherf*ckers

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Prey » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:49 pm

A local man talked to a news crew today and gave the following statement...

"I've got a friend who works for the fire brigade here. Yesterday on the phone he said they found about 42 bodies in one single room, all hiding together, all huddled together. No-one knows that. They are not going to tell you that."


"For you to get the proper and the real stories you must go to the people who live here," he said.

"What they're saying on the news and what you're seeing down here - two different stories. It's two different stories. You've got to go to the people that live here or have their families and loved ones that have been lost in there. They're the people who are going to tell you the truth, because the rest ain't gonna tell you the truth."


Angers me that they are no doubt actively attempting to deceive the public this way. Make the numbers known. The country is more than prepared for it and rather that than gently peppering us with a constant slither of incidental updates in a stupid attempt to lessen the impact.

User avatar
Quietman
 
Posts: 21987
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:17 pm
Location: Mega Tokyo

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Quietman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:57 pm

It's hard, but they are making the numbers known as often as they can, but they can't say people are definitively dead with no evidence. They can only go on what they find and the progress through the building will be slow, and I don't believe tittle tattle on the street more than the official reports. Friend of a friend chinese whisper bullshit.

I completely empathise with the people who have lost loved ones and are frustrated at the news not covering what they feel is blatently true, but there is a difference between knowing someone is dead and having the evidence to state that legally. It's apparently pretty hard to bring someone back from the dead in legal terms.

EDIT: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/w ... l-10641711

Fairly reasonable write up of the issues surrounding giving definitive figures.
Last edited by Quietman on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
IMO :P :wink: :P :wink: :P :wink:
Dean Learner: I said the fuck you don't do wet wipes.

Oranje Head
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2lS22 ... qTMqfvJ4xQ
Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/oranjehead

User avatar
Mantis
Admin
 
Posts: 26571
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: Nobody's Here

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Mantis » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 pm

The official figure was 58 last I heard, and that included the 30-something they'd already confirmed dead. 42 bodies in a single room sounds pretty dramatic to me, I would be surprised if it were actually true.

User avatar
eVoL
 
Posts: 31894
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Jettisoned through that hairy wormhole.

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby eVoL » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:27 pm

Even if it were true what would disclosing that achieve other than satisfying the rubberneckers?
Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?

User avatar
Eny
 
Posts: 14558
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Liminality

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Eny » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:03 pm

Apparently the first fire, the fridge, was put out at first and contained within the flat it started in....Watch BBC1 at 8:30 tonight.
Everything on the internet is 100% true.

– Abraham Lincoln


˙ƃuıʇıɹʍ ʎuıʇ ʎllɐǝɹ uʍop ǝpısdn

User avatar
Prey
Admin
 
Posts: 9205
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:16 pm
Location: Ghosting Motherf*ckers

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Prey » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:06 pm

That was difficult to watch but there was also so much good on show too and that was true solidarity in the midst of tragedy.

User avatar
Quietman
 
Posts: 21987
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:17 pm
Location: Mega Tokyo

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Quietman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:31 pm

Eny wrote:Apparently the first fire, the fridge, was put out at first and contained within the flat it started in....Watch BBC1 at 8:30 tonight.


At least the owner was pilloried in the press though.
IMO :P :wink: :P :wink: :P :wink:
Dean Learner: I said the fuck you don't do wet wipes.

Oranje Head
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2lS22 ... qTMqfvJ4xQ
Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/oranjehead

User avatar
Mantis
Admin
 
Posts: 26571
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: Nobody's Here

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Mantis » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:58 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... d-response

“We paid a lot of money to live here, and we worked hard for it. Now these people are going to come along, and they won’t even be paying the service charge.”

“I’m very sad that people have lost their homes, but there are a lot of people here who have bought flats and will now see the values drop. It will degrade things. And it opens up a can of worms in the housing market.”

Just wow.

Because losing everything you own and potentially even members of your family still isn't enough to qualify for a little empathy and charity.

Seriously, some people literally only think about money and themselves. One woman on LBC Radio even said that she'd move out if any of the Grenfell residents were rehoused in her block.

User avatar
Raid
Duke of Preys-World
 
Posts: 24708
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Ding!

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Raid » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:15 pm

The complainers basically seem to be saying that people without money are inherently worse than people with money. What a reprehensible attitude.

My understanding is that it's not unusual for new housing developments to have a portion set aside for social housing. It's certainly the case on my estate (we were informed by the sales manager when we bought the house), although if it's been built and filled already (the estate isn't finished) you couldn't tell.

User avatar
Mantis
Admin
 
Posts: 26571
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm
Location: Nobody's Here

Re: London Tower Block 'Major Incident'

Postby Mantis » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:00 pm

The concept of "I worked hard" means nothing in the context of how much money you have. Fire fighters, nurses, police officers etc all work damn hard and would never have a look in on £1.5m properties.

"These people", such a disregarding term. I really can't stand class based snobbery.

PreviousNext

Return to General & Real World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Subway Diet and 3 guests