Westminster attack

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Jez
 
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Jez » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:11 am

Part of the problem here also is that the media have spoken about literally nothing else since its happened. ISIS love this free advertising. Just wish the media would switch it off now.

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Raid
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Raid » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:13 am

This is why I don't like it when reporting immediately jumps to discussing whether it's a terrorist attack or not. This probably has fuck all to do with Isis, just a sympathiser with a grudge against the state who saw all of the publicity these acts get and was encouraged by it.

I was flicking between the BBC and Al Jazheera coverage. AJ jumped on that comment from Scotland Yard and were reporting it as Islamic terrorism quite early, whereas the Beeb were a little more restrained.

The media have an obligation to report on incidents like this, sure, but sadly the requirements of 24 hour coverage leave the presenters with air to fill and so naturally they discuss stuff like this. Sensationalism takes over and the discourse becomes less factual, and then we get to where we are now. This is an attack on the UK by terrorists despite there being practically no public domain evidence of that.

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Animalmother
 
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Animalmother » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:29 am

I'm going to guess that he was simply a very mentally ill person of Middle Eastern ancestry. He'd have done this or something similar regardless of the existence of Isis etc.

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Re: Westminster attack

Postby DjchunKfunK » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:50 am

Why does someone automatically have to be mentally ill in order to carry out a terrorist attack? There is no real link between most mental illness and violence and it paints the wrong picture of mental health to automatically link it with such acts. Most terrorist attacks are carried out by people who are in charge or all their mental faculties.
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Wrathbone » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:47 pm

I agree that it paints the wrong picture of mental health DJ and it's a dangerous association to make. Saying that, what state of mind do you have to be in - regardless of beliefs - to think that going on a suicide attack is something you should do? We don't know his motive yet, and no motive could ever justify what he did, but I find it difficult to think (or maybe accept) he did this in sound mind. The idea that somebody COULD do that in sound mind is possibly the scariest part of it.

If we should be doing anything in response to this as a society, it shouldn't be retaliation. It should be figuring out why these people do these things, particularly those with no clear links to terrorist organisations, and then figuring out what we can do to stop people getting to the point where they think a suicide attack is the right course of action. Maybe that's not possible, but it seems a better option than arbitrarily picking some group of people to blame, which sadly is what large swathes of our society default to doing.
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby DjchunKfunK » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:54 pm

Just because someone does something we can't comprehend or would not do ourselves, it doesn't automatically make them mentally deficient.

You're right, it's certainly difficult to accept and comprehend.
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Wrathbone » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:09 pm

DjchunKfunK wrote:Just because someone does something we can't comprehend or would not do ourselves, it doesn't automatically make them mentally deficient.


Exactly. I think it's important to recognise that someone who is brought up or brainwashed in an extremist environment (e.g. an ISIS recruit) is not mentally ill. They are trained to think the way they do, and while it's a horrible situation to consider I can comprehend how it happens. What troubles me with this latest attack and others by people who seem to have worked independently is that if they're not mentally ill or disturbed (and as you say, we shouldn't assume they are) then I can't explain it. I don't understand what motivates them to murder and maim people they've never met and know nothing about.

It's easy to dismiss it by saying some people will just do terrible things for no good reason, but I don't think we should. Dismissal solves nothing.
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Raid » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Mental illness is such a vast topic that using it as a catch-all is not remotely insightful or helpful. I'm mentally ill (clinical depression), and one of the things I find really difficult to deal with is the stigma surrounding that term - I can be honest about my condition and worry about how people perceive me, or attempt to hide it and end up hating myself for it. Bringing it up in cases like this merely reinforces the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous (to others or themselves) or more likely to commit crimes.

It's a shame that the attacker generally doesn't survive an atrocity like this, as it makes their motivations harder to understand. We can look through his possessions, question his associates, look at his browser history and communications, but that only builds a likely picture. It's impossible to prevent these acts unless we fully understand them.

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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Animalmother » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:53 pm

Poor choice of words on my part and I do apologise :?

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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Wrathbone » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:11 pm

Raid wrote:Mental illness is such a vast topic that using it as a catch-all is not remotely insightful or helpful. I'm mentally ill (clinical depression), and one of the things I find really difficult to deal with is the stigma surrounding that term - I can be honest about my condition and worry about how people perceive me, or attempt to hide it and end up hating myself for it. Bringing it up in cases like this merely reinforces the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous (to others or themselves) or more likely to commit crimes.


I have anxiety disorder, which I guess makes me mentally ill too (although I don't tend to think of myself in those terms). Bringing it up can reinforce a stereotype, but I think it's important to address it when it it's brought up in that context.

I didn't take any offence, AM, no need to apologise. :) Talking about stuff like this is what makes it okay - it's being afraid to bring it up for fear of offending anyone that causes divisions and isolation. I don't just mean talking about mental illness but talking about things in general. If ISIS were willing to sit down and talk things out then I'd be willing to wager things would improve. If the Westminster attacker had been interested in talking about whatever grievances or hatred drove him then it might have been prevented. What with Martin McGuinness dying this week, it's reinforced the idea that peace isn't made by talking with your friends.
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Raid
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Raid » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:32 pm

Likewise, no offense taken AM; I was referring more to the media than your post. You see it all the time with shootings in the US too.

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Jez
 
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Jez » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:50 pm

Sad but true.

In Afghanistan and Iraq the insurgents were reckoned to have almost exclusively used mentally ill folk for suicide bombing. The ones that didn't explode or go through with it near invariably had some form of mental illness. Often there were poor folk that were disabled also for instance down syndrome etc. Bottom line is these fucked up lot will exploit anyone they can to do this stuff.

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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Prey » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:27 pm

Son just came home from college in Bolton to tell me that Bury College had a police presence today due to threats made on Twitter...

Bury College, on Market Street, in the town centre, was put in lockdown receiving a threat via social media

Police have launched a hunt to find a hoaxer who issued a ‘gun attack’ threat against Bury College.

No-one was hurt and police believe the threat - which was tweeted to the college - was a sick threat. It is understood the hoaxer set up a fake account on Twitter and then direct messaged the threat to the college.

He warned them he had a weapon and would use it. Now GMP are determined to identify the person responsible for sending the message.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... e-12791531

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Re: Westminster attack

Postby elgaucho » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:44 pm

I'm guessing there are people being prats all over at the moment.

Last night the large shopping centre / cinema complex opposite my office was evacuated here in Luxembourg because someone made a bomb threat.

Wort Article

I left the office about 20 mins before the scare, but the police were out there pretty much all evening, according to some colleagues working late.

Sigh...
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Animalmother
 
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Re: Westminster attack

Postby Animalmother » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:06 pm

Some people are just unadulterated cunts :x

(I'm full of judgement today it would appear :lol:)

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