Trump

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Solitaire
 
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Re: Trump

Postby Solitaire » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:40 pm

We'll be turning our schools into fortresses and bunkers. I've noticed newer schools in my old town of Pensacola - they're being built with walls on all sides, with the playgrounds in the middle. Not saying it's a terrible idea, the elementary school I'm thinking of looks nice enough, but more like a really big bank building, not a school.

I appreciate your thought of giving teachers tasers, and that might help in a last-ditch attempt to stop someone when a shooter busts into a classroom. I've seen plenty of people who weren't phased in the least by being tased, however. You're right, Trump and his ilk would have AR-15's in every classroom without a second thought. The gun-nut fantasy Rambo Hollywood bullshit is the daydreaming playground of the weakest-minded individuals in my country.

There's no other effective solution besides controlling who has access to high-powered rifles. That will never, ever happen. Joe Dirt over here thinks that the government is just itching to storm houses and all that's holding the goon squads back is his collection of handguns and rifles - yeah, shoot that tank up, buddy, take down the Cobra gunship. We aren't free people; like my buddy from high school says, "stop paying your home property taxes for a while, and you'll quickly see how free you really are."

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Animalmother
 
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Re: Trump

Postby Animalmother » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 pm

Fuck mate, that's grim :/

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Jez
 
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Re: Trump

Postby Jez » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:05 pm

Very sad aye Soli. I just can't understand why there is so much of this indescrimate shooting in America. Like that senator said a few weeks....this doesn't happen anywhere else. There's plenty of other countries with very relaxed gun ownership and you don't see this.

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Subway Diet
 
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Re: Trump

Postby Subway Diet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:44 am

Jez wrote:Very sad aye Soli. I just can't understand why there is so much of this indescrimate shooting in America. Like that senator said a few weeks....this doesn't happen anywhere else. There's plenty of other countries with very relaxed gun ownership and you don't see this.

According to trump, it's video games and movies that are at fault, right? Kids supposedly see this stuff and can't help themselves because it's mental illness. Already got people cracking out the whole "video games have people shooting each other for points!" narrative like the 90s never left.

Seriously, though. Which countries are we comparing to America here for gun laws? I'd be surprised to see which ones hand out assault weapons quite as freely as the U.S.
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Raid
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Re: Trump

Postby Raid » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:16 pm

Today's Newsthump article is truly on point: http://newsthump.com/2018/02/24/preside ... t-bravery/

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Re: Trump

Postby Asherons » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:01 pm

I teach in a high school in America, So does my brother. My wife teaches at an elementary school, so does my brothers wife.

I am of the stance that having qualified and trained teachers with a gun safe located in their classroom if shit hits the fan as a fine idea.

I don't think it would be a good idea for teachers to be carrying pistols on them at all times. But in emergency situations having access to a weapon to defend yourself and your students in assisting with evacuating the building would be the quickest way to be able to stop or deter a gunmen from rampaging through the school.

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Re: Trump

Postby Jez » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:14 pm

I'd disagree but fair comment from a teacher I guess. :)

The hard part with all this is that these lunatics pick their moment and have all the advantage of surprise. It's very bad odds for anyone in those first moments. Plus in my opinion if the states is bonkers enough to implement this then all it achieves is increasing the ante. These lunatics would of course be aware that there may be armed white collar professionals and take a certain joy in nuking them first.

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Re: Trump

Postby Asherons » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:32 am

Yeah, they are lunatics that's for sure. but even if 10% of the employees in my school went through proper gun training and crisis training then we would have 15 staff on duty able to aid our kids in getting out of the school safely(school already has 2 police on duty all day). Is this the perfect solution? absolutely not. but it would be something that could be implemented relatively quickly to appease people who want immediate action. I'm pro 2nd amendment so banning guns from law abiding citizens doesn't work for me.

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Mantis
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Re: Trump

Postby Mantis » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:33 am

I'm not sure that even with training that a lot of teachers would actually be able to properly safeguard a class, particularly if they're faced with a child who they have taught themselves. Putting more guns within the vicinity of children would just lead to more disasters, it would make the teachers even bigger targets. I don't think it would act as a deterrent at all either. If someone wants to shoot up a school they're going to do it anyway.

I think a lot of people use the second amendment as an excuse that feeds into this big 'tough guy' attitude. It's function is to prevent State oppression and aid in the security of a free society, I think the terms in which is was drawn up are rather antiquated by this point. If you live in a place where you can't even go to school without the fear of being involved in a mass shootout then you don't live in a free society.

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Re: Trump

Postby Asherons » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:24 am

I go to a high school 5 days a week and don't worry about a mass shooting, they are rare. As of right now if someone decided to shoot up a school they know there is minum security, so close to no deterrent from someone walking throughout the school murdering with a gun, so having a few armed employees is more of a deterrent then what is currently being offered. And I would trust that those teachers who volunteer to be trained for crisis situations and permitted fire arms are acknowledgeing they are signing up for potentially tough decisions when it comes to stopping a shooting rampage.



Not sure what you mean by the tough guy attitude comment because owning guns is a right in America and people of all stature own them. Don't have to be tough to own a gun. Just need to make sure you properly train and know how to use your weapon.

I completely disagree with the second amendment being "antiquated". Not only are weapons good for home and personal defense, there is always a chance a government can turn for the worse and that's when the second is needed most.

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Mantis
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Re: Trump

Postby Mantis » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:43 am

I think it's antiquated because the realistic chances of actually succeeding in deposing your government in the modern era are slim to none. In reality, all it does is make people feel tough and that access to firearms gives them protection, when all their main function tends to be is to aid civilians in murdering one another. You'd be far safer if you simply didn't have them, every measurable statistic indicates this would be the case.

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Re: Trump

Postby Asherons » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am

Lol so citizens should just roll over when the government is abusing them? Got it.

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Re: Trump

Postby Mantis » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:39 pm

Well, you live in a deeply unequal society that routinely treats it's people like crap on a daily basis. Your democracy looks after big businesses over the interests and general well being of its own people. I usually think violence should be the absolute last course of option in any given scenario, but if at any point you feel like marching on the White House and putting Trump's head on a spike we wouldn't judge you.

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Re: Trump

Postby Wrathbone » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:03 pm

Asherons wrote:Lol so citizens should just roll over when the government is abusing them? Got it.


If you’re seriously suggesting that the public rising up with small arms to take on the US military is a real possibility or a good idea then I don’t know what to say.

Do you think we in the UK are less free because we don’t have guns? I’d quite like to see our government thrown out and I think they’ve done permanent damage to our society, but even if I had every weapon in the world at my disposal and an army to wield them, I wouldn’t overthrow the government. That’s not how a civilised society operates. We use diplomacy and politics. It’s slow and boring and tedious but it’s the right way to do it. Claiming that the second amendment should be used to cast out your government with force in the modern age is bewildering.
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Raid
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Re: Trump

Postby Raid » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:15 pm

Asherons wrote:Lol so citizens should just roll over when the government is abusing them? Got it.

If it ever got to the point where guns are being drawn to stop an abusive government, do you really think pistols and rifles are going to be much good against probably the most powerful military on the planet? Even if it got to the point of a full-blown civil war, the most powerful weapon in the citizens' arsenal would hopefully be the common sense of military personnel laying down their arms so that they didn't have to shoot their own people. To an outsider, the second amendment made a lot more sense 200 years ago when the best both sides could hope to wield were single-shot rifles. Now you're talking about a "regulated militia" with pistols and maybe semi-automatic rifles versus a military with cruise missiles, bunker buster bombs, tanks, maybe even lasers and railguns.

I'm surely missing something about that argument (and if I am, please do tell me), because I really can't see what you'd hope to achieve in that situation.

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