Orlando Tragedy

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Dr@gon-UK
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Dr@gon-UK » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:46 pm

They'd probably call it the Drive-By Package, "Everything you need in one easy purchase".
I understand the argument of home defense, but do you really need the firepower of a swat team to protect your flat-screen?
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Snowy
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Snowy » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:41 pm

Raid wrote:
Solitaire wrote:I'm living in Arizona now, whose car dealers frequently offer AR-15's as sales incentives.

Wha? Do they call it the Gun and Run package? Shoot and scoot? Mustang and Bang? Can I get them to mount the gun behind the headlights, James Bond style? I'm curious, given the fact that assault weapons are clearly ordinary, everyday items, what else you could buy with a free gun as an incentive? Does the class of weapon depend on the product price? Will they give me a howitzer emplacement if I buy a new house? I need to defend my family and my property against terrorists in main battle tanks, you see. What happens if the terrorists get hold of some SCUDs? Can I get a Patriot missile system?

I know I'm preaching to the converted, but just how in the hell did assault weaponry become a consumer product?


Todd will know better but I don't think it ever became a consumer product as that would imply something else had gone before, I think that Americans have just always been able to buy guns in some form or other since before the Colt 45 or Winchester repeater was invented, and have continued to be able to buy them as they morphed from that into the instruments of war that exist today.
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Raid
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Raid » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:46 pm

I decided to educate myself on this whole assault weapons thing. Turns out that they're not quite the same items used by the military, as they don't have the capability for automatic fire, and I think they're limited to 10 round magazines (although I can't imagine it being all that difficult to acquire 30 round magazines given that they were sold before the 1994 ban). Still, I'm not sure why you'd need even a semi-automatic rifle. Exactly what are you planning to shoot repeatedly at range? It can't be for hunting, because where's the sport in being able to hit a deer six times in quick succession? For sport shooting, why is there a need for quick, repeated shots; isn't accuracy the goal there?

And then there's the marketing. Oh lordy:
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A US Senate hopeful, Paul Broun, held raffles during his campaign to win an AR-15. Some gun-proponents wanted weapons like the AR-15 branded "modern sporting rifles".

And you're right Snowy; until 10 minutes ago I didn't realise assault weapons were sold prior to the lifting of the ban in 2004.

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Edwin
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Edwin » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 pm

There is a whole sport based around semi automatic guns
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Raid
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Raid » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:48 pm

But that doesn't require semi-automatic rifles, does it? It's a test of accuracy at speed which could be done just as well, if a little more slowly, with a bolt-action rifle.

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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Edwin » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:17 pm

There are slightly similar versions of the sport in the UK with straight pull rifles and three-round shotguns, they end up shooting only slightly slower than a semi-auto making the restriction pointless. What really changed in this country was a ban on pistols, which are used in most shootings in the US (can't conceal a rifle). Although we never really had a massive number of gun owners.
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Animalmother » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:32 pm

I believe there's an adapter called a bump fire or something similar that turns a semi-auto rifle into a full-auto. All perfectly legal and makes the law redundant.

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Edwin
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Edwin » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:42 pm

These things (American stereotype sold separately):
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Mantis » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:53 pm

It just baffles me that the basis for gun ownership in the US is still so heavily defended, not just by the gun lobbyists but by the general firearm toting public too. The constitutional right may have had some element of validity when it was first written, but things aren't quite like how they were 200 years ago now.

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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Prey » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:22 am

I'm surprised nobody has just come out and said it like it really is yet as in the country simply has an outright unhealthy obsession with the right to bear firearms, pure and simple. Long and short.

How many parents son's or daughters would still be walking the earth today if their parents didn't have some kind of gun closet that they just happened to gain access to and killed themselves while messing around with them? How many people likewise would not have shot themselves while stupidly taking selfies with a firearm? How many mass killing school tragedies could have been avoided? Domestic violence disputes where one partner shoots the other? Bank heists? The list is endless and ongoing on a daily basis in the US.

The right to bear ones own arms are exploited to the full and the country acts as if nothing can be done about it as it continues not to act after every single incident that occurs that become more and more mindless and with more and more innocent victims. Headed out the door with a gun in your pocket is as common an action as picking up your car keys or your mobile phone. Something each of us will no doubt never do once in our entire lifetimes.

We have gun crime here too but it's on a scale infinitely smaller than anywhere else in the modern world because gun control is actually part of a pro active society that is fully aware that guns are dangerous and only serve to escalate crimes and murders. It is only because of NRA fanatics and the like in the US that harbour the idiotic nature of owning a gun just because they can is all the motive they need to do so.
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Paul
 
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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Paul » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:22 am

It's too deeply ingrained in their society.

Eventually, it will come to a head and the issue will be resolved - but probably not for a very long time.

This podcast is worth a listen if you want to hear about the topic from someone who has a lot of experience with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG_xHE9LLsc

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Re: Orlando Tragedy

Postby Sly Boots » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:18 pm

Just as the talk turns to US gun control, the daughter-in-law of someone my wife used to work with has just been shot in Leeds, girl she'd met on a few occasions. She's just called me, their office in shock:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bi ... ox-8207285

Edit: shit, just flashed up on the news ticker. She didn't make it. :(
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