23rd June EU Referendum

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How will you vote?

In
24
69%
Out
10
29%
Shake it all about - not voting
1
3%
 
Total votes : 35

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Jez
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Jez » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:53 pm

We didn't all vote to leave because of Johnny foreigner or because we might read red label tabloids, I'd even suggest that it's only a minority that voted out because of those reasons.

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Mantis
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Mantis » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:04 pm

I know many people didn't vote out for that reason, but I refuse to accept that the people I just described only represent a 'minority'. Just look at the tone of how this Brexit has been set; right from the start with Farage parading around lies about immigrants, the papers, the Tory's capitulating to the far right because they're terrified of UKIP. If you can't see that this entire thing was hijacked by a very nasty foreigner hating far right populist movement then you are either blind or you're willfully ignoring it because your side won so you don't really care.

I accepted that the EUs flaws may ultimately outweight it's benefits and that if we couldn't play a more direct role in things then maybe we should consider breaking away. But I voted Remain because that is not how this campaign was framed at all and so the real issues have taken a complete backseat to xenophobia and an obsession with repatriating some illusion of sovereignty. Everything about the way the referendum was run was wrong and continues to be so in the aftermath.

Ultimately the ones who voted for Brexit in the first place are the ones likely to suffer the most from its outcome. That's what riles me up more than anything, it's a mixture of heartbreaking and angering.

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Lee
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Lee » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:11 pm

I don't even think tabloids have that much clout nowadays compared to TV/internet news or shows which were all mostly about telling people to vote, to stay in the EU.
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Jez
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Jez » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:44 pm

Lee wrote:I don't even think tabloids have that much clout nowadays compared to TV/internet news or shows which were all mostly about telling people to vote, to stay in the EU.


I'd generally agree with this. Printed news just doesn't have the same effect anymore. I felt the national TV coverage was as balanced as it could be considering they were reporting both sides Gobshite arguments.

Mantis just calm down a little with the argumentative retorts. We all friends here eh. =D>

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Subway Diet
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Subway Diet » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:40 am

Well, I'll just say this much: I'm glad someone is optimistic about the prospects of leaving the EU.

As someone who has already been royally bent over a barrel by the Tories in the past, the thought of them taking full control of the country, without the EU keeping them somewhat in check doesn't fill me with much hope. Looking forward to more surveillance and invasion of privacy. More cruel and unusual targeting of the poor and disabled.

Even setting aside my lefty social justice, on the economic side, all evidence I've seen points to this being something that'll most likely cause massive hardship in the lives of myself and many, many others.

I can't see what you see, but I really do hope it works out for all our sakes.

(And all this "Remoaners should like it and make up with the leaving crowd" talk. Or as it was put here: "I've only seen bad attitudes from the remain camp."
It's not on us to make nice. We feel like we've just been screwed over so of course we're not going to take it laying down. If the bridges are going to be mended, it's on the majority side to reach out. Show us that it wasn't a terrible decision and that you actually care about our concerns. I'd certainly like to find the positive side of all this.)
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby DjchunKfunK » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:50 am

Lee wrote:I don't even think tabloids have that much clout nowadays compared to TV/internet news or shows which were all mostly about telling people to vote, to stay in the EU.


It's not just about clout with the populace, it's about setting the agenda and in that regard the right wing press played a huge part in that. Even with a diminished readership if you have the majority of the newsprint constantly saying we should leave the EU because immigration is out of control you will eventually have that bleed through to the general populace, especially when the other side was less forceful and even less widely read.

(And all this "Remoaners should like it and make up with the leaving crowd" talk. Or as it was put here: "I've only seen bad attitudes from the remain camp."
It's not on us to make nice. We feel like we've just been screwed over so of course we're not going to take it laying down. If the bridges are going to be mended, it's on the majority side to reach out. Show us that it wasn't a terrible decision and that you actually care about our concerns. I'd certainly like to find the positive side of all this.)


Yeah the lack of grace shown by leaders on the Leave side has been shocking. People often talk about bad losers, but in this case they have been very bad winners.
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Wrathbone » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:54 am

I'm concerned by the increasing attitude (from both sides) that because the leave vote won, the remain side should stop complaining and get 'on team' with Brexit. That is not how democracy works, and there is a huge difference between accepting the result of a democratic vote and deciding to stop fighting your corner altogether. Do opposition parties stop campaigning against elected governments because the governments won fair and square? No, they keep plugging away for what they want to happen.

I recognise Brexit is happening and I accept that it was a fair and democratic vote. That does not mean I have to like it, or be optimistic about it, or agree with the way it's being handled, or stop supporting ways for us to remain relevant in the EU. To dismiss that way of thinking as stubbornness or being a 'bad loser' is to fundamentally misunderstand what democracy is.
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Subway Diet
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Subway Diet » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:17 am

Wrathbone wrote:I accept that it was a fair and democratic vote.
I don't. I mean, I do, but it was a terrible question put to the uninformed public. An advisory referendum, for crying out loud, not a mandate to burn it all down. It got nasty and became a matter of pride for some, with much of the tone setting gutter press portraying anyone opposed as traitors.

Funny how there was all these caveats with IndiRef, like there needing to be a 10% lead for the winning side and such. From the complacent remain campaign to the leave being largely taken over by the worst kind of people, this was a cock-up from start to finish. I'm convinced this'll be a black eye for the UK for many decades to come.

But I imagine the Tories are running with it for their own personal reason. Just you wait until they're running the next election on how great it'll be to get rid of the EU bill of human rights. I've seen how they treat people. Who do you think a Tory penned human rights bill is going to benefit?

Haha. Stop me if I'm getting to dystopian conspiracy theorist.
Last edited by Subway Diet on Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wrathbone
 
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby Wrathbone » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:27 am

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think the circumstances surrounding the vote were abhorrent and information was presented terribly to the public so that it was near impossible for anybody to make a properly informed decision. I don't believe the premise for the referendum was valid in the first place. But the actual vote itself was - mostly - done in a fair and democratic manner (i.e. it wasn't rigged). Voter intimidation did take place in some places, though, but I don't know if it was high enough to say it impacted the result.
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Re: 23rd June EU Referendum

Postby PaladinAl » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:20 pm



Frankly.
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