Unreal Engine 3 - One Engine to Rule them All?

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cHeal
 
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Postby cHeal » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:35 am

Hyssy wrote:It's not the engines fault that the developers are lazy.


That's my feelings. The unreal engine is popular because it is probably the easiest engine on the market for modifying, thus developers don't spend two years getting to grips with b0rked editors and un-intuitive coding.

I think in terms of looks source is better than UE 3.0, it's just more real, but the hammer editor is just so convoluted compared to UnrealED, that any developer would look at it and just see time being wasted trying to stabilise and learn it.

I do think that developers are being unduly influenced by GoW's war when creating their games, and it's possibly just a coincidence that they are using the unreal engine, perhaps using the unreal engine just suits that look a little or is atleast percieved to suit that look because all previews used this style and then GoW came out. The whole gothic steam punk look has become very popular and I think that reflects what developers are doing more than the engine they are using. Assasins Creed is UE 3.0 but, being set in a completely different environment it does have a very different look even if some of the post processing is the same.

Also if you look at the Holp pack (is that the one?) for UT3, it looks basically like UE2.0, which allowed for loads of diversity, so I don't think the engine is limited in what it can produce, just the developers in what they can imagine.
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The Snot Goblin
 
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Postby The Snot Goblin » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:51 am

cHeal wrote:Assasins Creed is UE 3.0 but, being set in a completely different environment it does have a very different look even if some of the post processing is the same.


No it ain't. It's the Scimitar engine, an in-house Ubisoft engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar_%28game_engine%29



Bioshock however was UE3 but the actual art design was strong enough that it didn't just look like a GoW knock-off (Though you could still tell it was UE3).
Last edited by The Snot Goblin on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby WMain00 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:51 am

Mass Effect did reasonably well in some situations in redeveloping the engine to it's needs. Then in other situations it didn't.

Lost Odyssey funnily enough changed the engine to something entirely different, and it seems to have worked reasonably well.

But yeah, it's getting dull that so many games are using it and not properly taking advantage of it. Only a few have perhaps rebuilt the engine so it doesn't look like Gears.

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:Dan
 
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Postby :Dan » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:40 pm

The Snot Goblin wrote:
cHeal wrote:Assasins Creed is UE 3.0 but, being set in a completely different environment it does have a very different look even if some of the post processing is the same.


No it ain't. It's the Scimitar engine, an in-house Ubisoft engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar_%28game_engine%29



Bioshock however was UE3 but the actual art design was strong enough that it didn't just look like a GoW knock-off (Though you could still tell it was UE3).


Yeah, the mouse lag and bloom gave it away. :x Also see: Vegas.

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[Prey]
 
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Postby [Prey] » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:36 pm

Hyssy wrote:It's not the engines fault that the developers are lazy.


Maybe in part that is the case, but I also think that the tools for the engine that Epic provide and the amount of involvement they have once the engine has been licenced also can hold things back considerably. I mean look at how Blacksite turned out, a lot of why it turned out like it did was a pure lack of proper support for the engine which meant they had to figure out how to resolve certain problems the engine coughed up flying completely solo. It took them 8 months just to solve one single problem.

Mark Rein says that if Unreal Engine 3 games look alike then it's probably just because the art directors share similar ideals.

Asked why they looked a bit similar during a panel discussion about engines at GCDC, Rein was a jolly sort of irate: "Do you think BioShock looks like Gears of War? Really? Have you seen Undertow?"

"The answer to that is that if two games look similar to one another in this day and age...it's probably intentional. It's probably two art directors who like one another's work and go for the same effect."


Hmm Undertow, wasn't that the free game Microsoft served up to apologise for the live outage?

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Hyssy
 
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Postby Hyssy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:49 pm

Hmm, I think it depends on what a licence will get you from Epic. If you can buy a licence with support or a basic engine licence or whatever. I wouldn't think that Epic would get involved in the development of another game, at a later date, simply because they are the owner of the engine.

I think certain engines will come through with similarities at one point or another. I always thought that Splinter Cell games didn't really look like Unreal engine, and I was pretty surprised when I found out that Double Agent was UE2.

There's a lot you can do with an engine and set of tools, but I think there's also a lot of public familiarity with a certain image. And a game like GoW... well if you can make your game seem a bit familiar, and that in turn helps yo u shift a few more units...

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[Prey]
 
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Postby [Prey] » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:55 pm

Erm I very much doubt they had to make UT3 look familiar bud, considering every single advert for it (accross all media types) had the "From the studio that brought you Gears of War!" plastered all over it. Fuck me, as if you couldn't tell in the first place. And besides, it didn't help whatsoever in the sales pitch for UT3 PC which struggled a lot for the first few months. So the whole familiarity helps shift more units idea is pretty much complete nonsense. If anything I bet it put people off, simply because they looked so alike in the art and design department.

As for just how much involvement an engine licencer such as Epic should have with the engine licencee, I've no idea. But I doubt it can do them any harm to make it as much as possible if they don't wish to see their engine seen in a bad light.

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Hyssy
 
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Postby Hyssy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:58 pm

I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't talking about UT3, that should be pretty obvious that it'll look like a typical Unreal engine game.

I'm talking about other developers that licence the engine and copy the GoW/Unreal look to create more public awareness in their brand.

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[Prey]
 
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Postby [Prey] » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:00 pm

Ah ok then. From that viewpoint I actually think any studio purposely making their game look like Gears is a fool. Familiarity breeds contempt no?

I know I personally would get much more excited about many of these new UE3 based projects if they looked about as far removed from fucking Gears as possible. Then perhaps we'd be getting somewhere.
Last edited by [Prey] on Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hyssy
 
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Postby Hyssy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Should we look at The Sims sales figures? :P

Familiarity makes money.

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[Prey]
 
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Postby [Prey] » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Not with UT3 it didn't! :P

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Hyssy
 
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Postby Hyssy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:04 pm

Well yes, but the game sucked :P

We need to stop thinking of the majority of gamers as independent, free thinking individuals. They're a gelatinous mass that will happily absorb anything thrown at it. EA Sports...

Except horribly put together, rushed PC games that look more like console ready ports.

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Postby Nethlyn » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:05 pm

Prey wrote:Not with UT3 it didn't! :P


Then that is history repeating itself, except that it's Epic feeling the downturn instead of iD. The engine "sold" better than the game which has its name, just like Quake III.

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[Prey]
 
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Postby [Prey] » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:09 pm

Hyssy wrote:Except horribly put together, rushed PC games that look more like console ready ports.


And isn't it just funny that the majority of those are now using UE3? It may well be a cheap engine, and even an extremely popular one. But once you have played two very differently developed games by two very different development teams and yet they both look end up looking like they were somehow miraculously seperated at birth. Well, you have to question just how limited the engine tools actually are.

This is pretty much why engines such as Stalkers own X-Ray named propriety engine really start to capture the hearts and minds of gamers who crave something different. Simply because it looks so unlike any other engine currently on the market it becomes a very singular and extremely unique experience. Which as we know is never a bad thing.

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cHeal
 
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Postby cHeal » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:17 pm

The Snot Goblin wrote:
cHeal wrote:Assasins Creed is UE 3.0 but, being set in a completely different environment it does have a very different look even if some of the post processing is the same.


No it ain't. It's the Scimitar engine, an in-house Ubisoft engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar_%28game_engine%29



Bioshock however was UE3 but the actual art design was strong enough that it didn't just look like a GoW knock-off (Though you could still tell it was UE3).


Your right, I was certain that I read it was UE 3. It is infact a modified UE 2.5 engine.
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