Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Mantis
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Mantis » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:34 am

Another thing that I've just remembered from the previous movie which is now bugging me.

Spoiler: show
We find out in TLJ that Rey's parents are literally nobody of note, the whole mystique around them was just set up for two movies and then flatly dropped with no payoff. That's bad enough in itself, but what does that mean for the visions she had in Ep7 where she saw Ren standing over her in the rain when he stabs that guy through the chest? Was that a memory, a vision, what exactly? TFA literally suggests something significant in her past and it has been completely forgotten.

Now that is a prime example of how disjointed the story is between these new movies. No cohesion. They really pale in comparison to the original trilogy, which is amusing when you think that those movies were far from perfect themselves.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Raid » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:41 am

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Given that this was told to her by Ren in a vision coordinated by Snoke, I'm not convinced the issue of Rey's parentage is over.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Jez » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:45 am

Yeah he could have been winding her up...she seems like the sort to bite easily :lol:

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Mantis » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:49 am

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Wasn't that revelation after Snoke had been killed? I'm sure it was when Ren was trying to convince her to join him and rule the galaxy together. Sure, maybe he was lying, but at this point why even bother dragging the mystery out over yet another movie? There can't be a reveal big enough to warrant three movies of building it up, particularly after them outright stating in this movie that her parents were nobody significant. Rey's reaction to being told seemed to imply that she knew it was the truth too.

Nope, I think the issue is done and dusted now. Where else could they take it? She could be Luke's kid, but then everyone has suggested that since TFA and to reveal it in Ep9 wouldn't be very climactic at all.

I think a good arc would have been to wrap it up in this movie by revealing that she is in fact Luke's daughter, and that he abandoned her on Jakku because he sensed that any offspring of the Skywalker bloodline was doomed to be tempted to the dark side, so he left her there in hopes that she'd never discover her powers, which would also tie in nicely with the scene where she's meditating and is drawn to the darkness so easily. Luke's self imposed exile could be for both his shame in abandoning his own daughter and also his failure in saving Ben Solo, really driving home the fact that even Luke himself isn't immune to acts of evil. If the movie had given a lot more screentime to this arc then it could have really fleshed out the story surrounding the Skywalker lineage and built upon the idea that they're tainted by both the light and the dark and trying to balance that line. But nope, instead we got a whole host of awful extra cast members off on a random adventure that was ultimately pointless.

Urgh, this really was such a huge swing and a miss.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Raid » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:09 pm

Mantis wrote:
Spoiler: show
Wasn't that revelation after Snoke had been killed?

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Perhaps, but where did Ren get the knowledge from?

A common Sith trait is manipulation. I don't think Kylo is a Sith, but Snoke probably was, and he was clearly manipulating Kylo for his own purposes. I wouldn't think it so unlikely that Snoke inserted false information, either into the link between the two or into Kylo who then transmitted it to Rey.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Mantis » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:14 pm

It's not impossible, but all of that is conjecture, you're filling in gaps where the movie gave no hints at anything like that being the case. In fact, I think the events that occur are more heavily weighted towards what Ren tells her being true.

That scene was pretty much the climax of their confrontation in this movie. For the next installment to then come along and invalidate their entire dialogue from it would be bad writing.

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I think they knocked the whole thing on the head in TLJ because who her parents are really doesn't matter. Seriously, what could be so significant at this point to be worth dragging it out for three movies? There's never been any suggestion that there are other powerful characters that she could be the daughter of. And I think if she really were Luke's daughter then there'd have been some sort of more meaningful exchange between them when she trained on the island with him.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Raid » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:27 pm

Mantis wrote: but all of that is conjecture

Well, yes, that's part of the experience for me.

Don't forget that we were told that Darth Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker in Episode 4 only for that to be "corrected" in Episode 5. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened in Star Wars. I don't honestly think Lucas had planned Luke to be Leia's brother either. Star Wars isn't really known for brilliant writing when it comes to important revelations.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Achtung Englander » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:31 pm

7/10

I enjoyed it. To me now these are just "films", nothing more. I am not expecting anything from the Hollywood machine now and if you go in with low expectations it was OK. This film does suffer from a lot of issues. It is too long. The casino scene could of been axed in its entirety and would not have affected the plot (thus trimming 20 minutes) and there were a whole raft of silly ideas especially about the physics of space BUT it try to appeal to my cerebral cortex, ie, it tried to make me think and it deserves credit for that.

This film has definitely divided audiences and is getting a lot of hate but what did they think was going to happen with a Star Wars movie. I mean how many times can you walk down the same storyline and expect something different ?.

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The fact that Luke was ready to do away with the Jedi Order worked for me. He was not around when the Jedi were in their heyday. He was lied to by his master, Obi Wan, and his star pupil became a prick, making him feel like a failure. Failed padiwans that fall to the Dark side resulted with Darth Vader and almost destroyed him - I am not surprised he became jaded. He is also in his 60s. How many 60 year olds do you know still have the optimism for life and all things bright as they did in their 20s ? He is in a different time of his life and he is tired of it all. It made perfect sense to me. His death scene was also good - he surrendered his spirit to the Force as he could do more in spirit than he could as a man.

The idea that Rey's parents are nobody is also a good idea. It would of sucked if she was related to Skywaker or Kenobi. I mean how fucking small is this universe. The idea that anyone in the Star Wars galaxy could be "blessed" opens it up to the sage continuing without it being beholden to anyone in the past. Think of the Jedi as a genius. Once in a while we come across one - Mozart, Michaelangelo, Einstein, Da Vinci. So if that kid at the end felt the force - it means the story can continue beyond the Skywaker clan.

This film is getting 1s and 2s from fan boys who hate this with a passion because it goes against their "idea" of what the force is or where they want the Star Wars canon to go. Get over yourself.

At least, unlike TFA, this one was set in space !!
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Jez » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:31 pm

In fairness the "Force-facetime" thing was fucking gash as an idea, either that or just badly shoehorned into the whole film.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Mantis » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:37 pm

Raid wrote:Don't forget that we were told that Darth Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker in Episode 4 only for that to be "corrected" in Episode 5. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened in Star Wars. I don't honestly think Lucas had planned Luke to be Leia's brother either. Star Wars isn't really known for brilliant writing when it comes to important revelations.


That's true, but I think that I was just hoping this new trilogy would up the game a little and really make for some great movies. Perhaps, given it is being controlled by Disney, I simply expected too much. Rouge One was a good effort though and having this come out as a follow-up to that was incredibly disappointing, because for all Rogue One's awful failures I still think it's a great modern Star Wars movie. This just falls flat of that entirely for me.

Achtung Englander wrote:
Spoiler: show
His death scene was also good - he surrendered his spirit to the Force as he could do more in spirit than he could as a man.


I really hope they use that as a means to give him a significant role in the final movie. I'm not so sure they will, but it would be good if they did given how good he is with the character.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Jez » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:03 pm

Oh I think he'll come back with some cringey end of RotJ moment standing with the "likely lads" again looking all flippin smug and proud at who's ever efforts to destroy <insert empire death machine title here>.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Snowy » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Better late than never, just watched a downloaded version.

It was alright in parts, shite in others. I am with Jez on Force Facetime, what a load of old wank all that was. I think all told while I was entertained for the too-long that it ran for, it brought nothing new to the table and felt like Empire to the previous one's Ep IV. Problem I have though is that Empire was the best of the original trilogy because of the characters, but these films just don't match that in any way. I warmed to Daisy Ridley this time around more than the first outing, but Poe is a twat, Finn is bland and lacking any real definition as a character, Ren is a caricature and they really need to lose his tantrums if he is to have any menace at all, and the less said about Snarky O'Ginger the New Order officer the better.

Thinking back, I think my problem is all the shouty desperation, on both sides. It robs the sequels of any gravitas or believability in terms of the characters. Think of the cold calculation of Grand Moff Tarkin, the indomitable presence of Darth Vader, the cold purpose of Boba Fett, the effortless cool of Han Solo etc etc. In TLJ, they all act like opposing herds of directionless teenagers. How can you believe the menace of the New Order when they show no leadership and any evil acts are all done in a shouted, uncalculated way? Their two figureheads are a temper tantrum Sith wannabe and a ginger louse so lacking in any personality in actuality he would never have been promoted beyond mopping the space shitter. Cut to the rebels, and you have a mirror image but rather than being the last hope of the galaxy, beaten but not broken, fighting back against a vastly superior war machine, it is all wild throws of the dice that always work and endlessly being snatched from the jaws of doom.

So for me I reckon... 6/10.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Jez » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:42 am

Watched Rogue 1 earlier this week on download after seeing it in cinema on release and it's miles better than TLJ in almost every way.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Dr@gon-UK » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:08 pm

Jez wrote:Watched Rogue 1 earlier this week on download after seeing it in cinema on release and it's miles better than TLJ in almost every way.


I personally think it's better than TLJ and TFA.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Postby Snowy » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:28 pm

Jez wrote:Watched Rogue 1 earlier this week on download after seeing it in cinema on release and it's miles better than TLJ in almost every way.


I watched it a while back after seeing it at the cinema - it was alright, but again I wouldn't hurry back to see it again.
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