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Game of Thrones

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:35 pm
by deetz
HBO: Game of Thrones

As was suggested by Yodith heres a Game of Thrones thread.

Got the first episode saved so i can watch it when i like. Wondering whether i might just save up the entire season and watch them all in one giant binge. Not sure if i have the will power for that though.

Wish i came quite late to this like i did with The Sopranos and The Wire so i had a couple of seasons to watch rather than having to wait ages for each individual episode. Woe is me :(

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:36 pm
by katarn
I'm also toying with the idea of waiting & getting all the episodes together before watching. Not sure yet.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:38 pm
by deetz
Someone linked the making of video a week or so ago. Might have been Yodith but not sure. Just in case people are interested heres a link to it.

Well worth the watch.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:49 pm
by Adalaar
I can't do the whole wait for the entire season and the watch in one go because my missus is so hyped about this and has major crush on Sean Bean I'll be forced to watch this every Monday.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:57 pm
by Reiver
I watched it this morning but i was half asleep and spent more time analysing changes and pre-empting dialogue than enjoying it. I'll watch it again tonight and hope I can forget about the book and try and take it on its own merits.

Mostly it was pretty faithful and hit a lot of the important story beats. Unfortunately the quality and how well it got things across seemed to vary and i suspect that new viewers will be lost and bewildered for large portions. Some of that through how dense the story and backstory is and how many characters there are but also there's a few bad choices in dialogue and exposition which unecessarily muddy things.

****Here be spoilers ****

I'm going to go on a bit so apologies in advance.

There's probably 3 scenes in this portion of the book that stand out to me. First Bran and Ned's talk after the beheading and the speech about bravery which didn't make it in (although i hope it is just moved about to not have Ned spouting wise quotes like a confucius handbook). Next is the scene in the crypt between Robert and Ned which is one of my favourite sections in all the books. It has so much history, character development foreshadowing and hinting that i suppose it was inevitable it would be pared down. Unfortunately i'd consider it butchered.

I know it pretty much off by heart so maybe i'm unfairly critical but the changes didn't make it easier to understand what was going on or cut out extraneous stuff. Instead they made things even more confusing. For example:
Robert says "in my dreams i kill him every night" which is odd as it's not clear who "he" is or why Robert is saying this. Admittedly Ned's next line makes it clearer ("the targaryens are gone") but the books line of "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her" seems to me a lot better. Even if they replaced Rhaegar for the more nebulous "him" it would make the scene and what it's trying to convey clearer for newcomers, giving a bit of history and motivation for only a few words more. The link to Dany works quite well and could still be included ie:
R:"I vowed to kill him for what he did to her"
N:"You did"
R:"Only once! In my dreams i kill him every night."
then *as in the show*

Trying to imagine myself as a new viewer i'd be utterly lost as to what is going on. We get Robert was "engaged" to Lyanna but no idea of what happened, why Robert has a vendetta against them or even who the Targaryens are. That this important scene got cut in half by a utterly pointless visit to a brothel to see.. well tits and ass. The entire sequence does nothing more than establish tyrion likes whores which does nothing to build his character. I understand that this scene would be very wordy and exposition heavy but it's important and assuming your audience will have the patience to sit through good dialogue between two strong actors is what makes a show adult, not nipples and blood. It must be hard to get all the stuff in the book into the show so why add something of no merit. It's not even like they need the nudity as there's Dany breasts in about 2 minutes anyway. When i see what was cut it makes me slightly bitter

The Jon Tyrion scene is also greatly reduced but serves as a much better intro to Tyrion's character with his comment about his status as the Queen's brother being his "greatest accomplishment". The great line "All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes" is there too. I missed Ghost and the other pups but i understand they were hard to train so fair enough.

The wall looked great and the intro was very atmospheric and spooky. They got the feel right. Unfortunately they never conveyed the passage of time or distance well so it seemed like the whole thing happened almost in the shadow of the wall. I guess that isn't so important but it will probably throw up inconsistencies. The other big problem here was the others or white walkers as they primarily call them (presumably because of lost) weren't particuarly well introduced or differentiated from the wights. The White Walker seemed like a cross between an orc and a predator and was brutish rather than elegant and intelligent like the book. It all made it a bit more generic horror movie than i'd have liked.

Tbh i'm slightly suprised they kept this intro given how little it has to do with the tone of the show. It puts the fantasy elements front and centre but i can't say i'd have overly missed it.

Intro of Stark kids was decent and managed to get across a lot of personalities quickly without feeling too forced and Winterfell looks great. Maybe an aerial shot would have better demonstrated the size and reinforced the godswood was inside the castle as the scene in it seemed to be off in the woods. Not that it matters much just that it would confuse newcomers slightly and failed to convey that bit of history/world building it was intended.

Theon and Robb's relationship doesn't seem as close as in the book. Admittedly they only had one proper exchange but Robb snapping at Theon over the wolfcubs puts them at odds much earlier than in the books. It also suggests, by the wording, Theon is loyal to Ned rather than has a brotherly connection to Robb. I guess this makes sense given what happens and might mean there's less to be done later to explain Theon's betrayal.

I was suprised how much i liked Lena Headey as Cersei. She may not be the Cersei of the books but it's good and fitting. That scene where she "compliments" Sansa on her dress and the look on Catelyn's face was gold. Probably my favourite moment in the show. Tyrion aside the added scenes were pretty good. Having the incest scene's dialogue moved to KL worked fine and the Sansa character was perfect as the dreamy teen.

Still got tons more to say (like how the Dothraki looked like Xena extras) but i'll stop for no ;)


PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:14 pm
by JohnyHumf
I want to watch this, but I can't until I've read all the books. :(

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:11 pm
by Scrappy
Yeah same here. No point me watching it until I've finished the first book.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:53 pm
by Yodith
I thought this was excellent. Just going to write up a quick summary of what I liked and didn't but will probably have more to say in the coming days. I'm going to try and stay clear of spoilers for future episodes/books but if you haven't seen the first episode yet or haven't read the books. you might want to stop reading now.

*** SPOILERS ***

Jamie Lannister and Viserys were the standout performances for me and almost identical to how they are portrayed in the books. Cersei and Catelyn were also impressive and in the case of Cersei the TV series seems to have added depth to what is s a fairly two dimensional character in the books.

The core traits of all the main characters came across very well, even when they had virtually no spoken dialogue. I watched it with my girlfriend who has never read the books and doesn't have any interest in fantasy beyond Tolkien and Pratchett but she picked up on the personalities of Jamie, pre-Drogo Dany, Viserys, Arya, Joffrey, Sansa and the rest straight away. Her reaction to Joffrey and Sansa was priceless - "he just exudes slime and wrongness" and "she's a stupid, precocious cow, isn't she?" respectively.

Peter Dinklege was very good as Tyrion although I agree that the whorehouse scene was completely unnecessary and didn't do much except establish the relationship between he and Jamie. All the whores piling on at the end was a step too far. That said, the Tyrion and Jon scene made up for it and they did a lot to establish both characters in a short space of time.

All of the Pentos stuff, except for the erm, consummation scene with Dany and Drogo, was great. I've always sound the Dany chapters the least interesting and hardest to read but they really made it fun to watch. The wedding was highly amusing and Viserys's arrogance and impatience really came across. Some of the exchanges with Illyrio were really sharp too.


Robert is too much of a drunken clown and the scene in the bedroom with Ned and Catelyn joking about his weight didn't sit right with me at all. Despite Ned's misgivings, he would never talk about Robert that way, even to his wife. Apart from a few references relating to Lyanna we don't really see anything of the brave warrior who took the throne or his ability to inspire fierce loyalty from his follower.

Considering the role he plays in A Clash of Kings, I'd like to have seen a bit more of Theon - his little kick at the beheading scene would have set him up nicely, I think. As it is, he just came off as an arsehole.

- I can completely understand why they did it but Danerys's age and appearance just aren't right for me. Obviously, they never could have done the nudity if she had been thirteen so it's good in that sense but it doesn't feel as if she's the girl she is at the start of the books. She seems the wrong shape and her hair isn't right... which is odd as it suits Viserys down to the ground.

A few things about the Stark children that are just me being niggly. Arya and the bow, for one. Firstly, a girl that small would never be able to draw the bow, secondly in ASOS, she bemoans the fact that she doesn't know how to use one. There were other ways that they could have set up the character that would have worked better. Secondly, Rickon - he's too old. One of the big things is that he's barely more than a baby and I can see there being really difficulty in essentially creating a new role for him to reflect his increased awareness come the later parts of ACOC.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:51 pm
by Boomshaka
Good post there, Reiver. I'd just like to add that personally, it all came off as a bunch of stuff happening. No real conection to what was happening and the charchters seamed shallow and fairly basic to how the books portray them.

There were flashes of something with the depth of the book here and there, but frankly most of it read like that of a soap opera and an episode of the tuders.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 am
by deetz
Early days yet i guess.

Just going to make a sandwich and then i'll sit down to watch it.


Watched it and loved every minute of it. Only thing that caught my attention was the eggs looking a bit odd but fuck it. Such a minor thing.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:17 am
by Yodith
Boomshaka wrote:Good post there, Reiver. I'd just like to add that personally, it all came off as a bunch of stuff happening. No real conection to what was happening and the charchters seamed shallow and fairly basic to how the books portray them.

I disagree. I thought the TV series added a lot more depth to Cersei, Viserys and Jaime. Jaime in particular is entirely two dimensional until his little run-in with Vargo Hoat at Harrenhal.

For the record, I loved it and the little niggles I had are very minor things for me. When I saw The Fellowship of the Ring for the first time I didn't enjoy it because I was so hung up on what had changed from the book. It wasn't until later viewings that I really started to enjoy it for what it was. I'm determined not to let this happen to me with GoT and, to be honest, they have done a fantastic job of adapting it from what I've seen so far.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:27 am
by Adam
Looking forward to this, have never read the books though. Reckon I'll still get something out of it?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:00 am
by The Snot Goblin
The girlfriend has never read the books and thoroughly enjoyed it.

At a bare minimum you'll get many an eyeful of boobs out of it.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:47 am
by katarn
Adam, there's also a great interactive guide here that HBO have made for people to look at along with the series:

It goes into family members of the various houses and so on.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:08 am
by Reiver