MMO Game Discussion

The strategy of playing ones role.
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Vidrageon
 
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Postby Vidrageon » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:46 pm

Horizon? Never heard of it...what is it about?

Anybody else play UO, too?

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Postby Quietman » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:34 pm

Note:

This topic has been de-stickied due to lack of interest, so it's now up to you guys to keep it at the top :P
IMO :P :wink: :P :wink: :P :wink:
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Flash
 
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Postby Flash » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:40 pm

gunner_uk2000 wrote:but nothing can be done about the game being utter shit.


True. A complete lack of vision on behalf of SOE. They seem quite content to create an ugly sub par shooter, with the occasional big laggy battle. I hope another developer will consider doing the concept justice.

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Snowy
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Postby Snowy » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:43 pm

I currently play DAOC, and have done since it first peeked it's head over the horizon. I have flirted briefly with wnother couple, but have invested a lot of time (and have a lot of friends) in Camelot so keep coming back.

For me, the levelling treadmill is the bane of MMO games. As Richard Cobbett once pointed out, the people that can dedicate themselves to MMO games, and become powerful characters and whatnot as a result, are generally people you wouldn't wish to meet irl, and hence online (i.e. no life outside of the PC, no social graces etc). The ones who crave power over other players, be it by browbeating them, or by placing themselves in positions of authority (guild-masters, event organisers etc). I once fancied joining a guild where there were 2 or 3 players I was friendly with, only to be told I had to bow to the GM whenever I saw him. BOW? WTF, why not just grease myself up and offer to be his sausage-warmer???? Needless to say, the bitch was told, and the guild wans't joined.

For me, I like playing, but will never devote huge chunks of my time to the game, but regardless I want to develop a powerful character. Whether a 1st level lowbie, or a 50th level psychpath, you end up fighting NPC's/PC's on or around your level, or the level of your group.

So...

Why restrict my character development in a persistent world to the time I am online? Why not have them develop all the time? Having a persistent world, and an ephemeral character who blips on and off according to my habits is just silly. Also if I buy a game like a MMO, the chances are I will want to go adventuring with online friends when I am playing. That does not happen in reality, as you al level at different rates, and so become incompatible purely due to level, and drift apart - this is criminal, it destroys part of the core enjoyment derived from the game. Let characters develop side by side, let them enjoy their gaming to the utmost level.

There you go - you wanted a discussion point - discuss away :)

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Flash
 
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Postby Flash » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:49 pm

I don

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Nilly
 
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Postby Nilly » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:43 pm

Flash wrote:I don?t believe in the level system. It?s just used to compensate for the game engine not allowing your skill to determine battle outcomes. The sooner an MMO RPG is developed that lets you actually carry out the fighting the better.

There?s still room for an economy so you can buy better armour and weapons etc but why should I only be able to kill a certain person when I?ve dispatched 10,000 rats?


That is why many mmorpg games are skill based, in short, no levels, just the more you use something, the better you become at it.

[quote="jg_baller"]your system "shouldnt" have a problem at all Neb, the graphics card is a bit on the dated side but according to the specs it should be fine. The main thing is that the game whizzes along at an enormous rate of knots if yer on BB, and is very manageable if yer only on 56, (this is the first truely MP ive played that really does cater for 56K).

The monthly charges are ballpark
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Postby Vidrageon » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:10 pm

Mr Vampyr wrote:Note:

This topic has been de-stickied due to lack of interest, so it's now up to you guys to keep it at the top :P


You stickied it? Hehe.

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Vidrageon
 
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Postby Vidrageon » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:13 pm

Neb wrote:
Flash wrote:I don?t believe in the level system. It?s just used to compensate for the game engine not allowing your skill to determine battle outcomes. The sooner an MMO RPG is developed that lets you actually carry out the fighting the better.

There?s still room for an economy so you can buy better armour and weapons etc but why should I only be able to kill a certain person when I?ve dispatched 10,000 rats?


That is why many mmorpg games are skill based, in short, no levels, just the more you use something, the better you become at it.


UO for an example, you use one skill and it raises over time by percents, like when you're a journeyman at like parrying it'll raise 1-2 percents whenever you use it for short times, but when you're a master at parrying it'll maybe rise 0.1 percent every fifteen times you parry or so. It works.

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Postby Snowy » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:35 pm

Yes Vid, but that system was also a load of old ballhang wasn't it?

A mate of mine played UO for ages, and I used to watch him when I popped over. He had macro's set up, for example to hide and then unhide. When we came to go to the pub or whatever, he would leave the game running, with the macro running merrily away, locked in his house hiding and unhiding. Every few times, he gains a fraction of a percent increase.

Now I don't know about you, and I couldn't get him to see, but this isn't gameplay, it is purest pointless tedium. As to the gaming side of it, when he used his uber-hide skill, he hadn't really 'earned' it in any sense of the word.

Totally pointless, and totally the point of my initial post.

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Postby Nilly » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:36 pm

B1tch wrote:Yes Vid, but that system was also a load of old ballhang wasn't it?

A mate of mine played UO for ages, and I used to watch him when I popped over. He had macro's set up, for example to hide and then unhide. When we came to go to the pub or whatever, he would leave the game running, with the macro running merrily away, locked in his house hiding and unhiding. Every few times, he gains a fraction of a percent increase.

Now I don't know about you, and I couldn't get him to see, but this isn't gameplay, it is purest pointless tedium. As to the gaming side of it, when he used his uber-hide skill, he hadn't really 'earned' it in any sense of the word.

Totally pointless, and totally the point of my initial post.


Technicly you could call it cheating, or, more literally, you could call it exploiting the games flaws. However, the system works better than leveling, because you have a lot more freedom over what you become if you have a skill based thing, rather than a level system, it is also, for me anyway, more realistic.

Both ways can be tedious, both ways can certainly be annoying and or boring, but i cant really think of a way which would work that didnt have too many flaws to be exploited.
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Snowy
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Postby Snowy » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:43 pm

Character development that occurs constantly, not just when you are online. That way the player constantly has an evolving avatar to play (hence ensuring that subs continue to be paid), friends can be assured that they will develop at the same pace without having to match not only the time spent online, but also the activity undertaken. A lack of no-life rectums sitting at the top of the tree dictating to one and all. Surely it is not that silly an idea?

Know what you mean Neb, I actually quite like UO, but I still think it is a shit system when examined in it's own right.

I mean, MMO games are FOREVER having ways to 'exploit' bugs closed, the dev's get arsy with those that 'exploit' them, it is all bollocks. The player is playing to advance their character, have new experiences etc. Naturally they are going to exploit ways to access those experiences quicker, especially in an MMO environment where more options open up to you the more your character grows. Developers are dealing with the consequence of bad design, not the design flaws themselves.

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Nilly
 
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Postby Nilly » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:46 pm

Yeah, however some games are putting more emphises on just roleplaying and so on.

One of the reasons why i am looking forward to warhammer online is because that its emphises is more on role play and exploring the world rather than becomming big mighty and powerful.


(and the fact you can play the whole game without leaving one of the citys :? which i will of course if i ever get it :P).
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Postby Gunner » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:53 pm

even then wouldn't that system be a bit pointless as well, ie someone whoes been playing longer would be realistically better.

the only way to stop this is to have no skill, only the user's skill, ie hacking

instead of a progress bar, give him something to hack (like uplink), then people who have been playing longer, will naturally be able to hack it fatser (cos he's had a bit of practace), where as the biginner will take longer, cos he doen't really know how to hack that well.
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Nilly
 
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Postby Nilly » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:56 pm

gunner_uk2000 wrote:even then wouldn't that system be a bit pointless as well, ie someone whoes been playing longer would be realistically better.

the only way to stop this is to have no skill, only the user's skill, ie hacking

instead of a progress bar, give him something to hack (like uplink), then people who have been playing longer, will naturally be able to hack it fatser (cos he's had a bit of practace), where as the biginner will take longer, cos he doen't really know how to hack that well.



Going by that logic, then all you would have to do is walk around a bit spending time on the game and you would progress without really doing anything, or if i misunderstood that, your idea is basically the idea of a level system.
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Postby Gunner » Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:06 pm

well you could still have missions to do, get money, buy better stuff.

ie so you have a better gun, which does more damage, but it's down to you to hit them with it, so if you miss, and he shots you in the head with a pistol you lose the fight ie because YOU mucked it up, and NOT because a 6 was rolled.
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