Dota 2

The strategy of playing ones role.
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Mantis
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Re: Dota 2

Postby Mantis » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:42 pm

In general I haven't found it to be too bad actually. At least, not when you consider how vile the LoL and HoN communities are.

Smite is easily the best out of the lot. All of you should bloody play it. -_-

Zael wrote:Her passive was nerfed recently, so her aura no longer affects ranged creeps globally. Meaning her mere presence in a game will no longer push every lane. She's still tricky to deal with because unlike most carries she starts doing serious damage very early and she's an easy hero to play well. That said, she's rarely picked in high skill games because her lack of any escapes and general squishyness makes her easy to shut down.


Yeah the general feeling I got from playing her was that she's very easy to steam roll over uncoordinated players with. But she's also very vulnerable unless super fed, so any team who're working together properly can easily shut her down at any stage of the game without too much hassle.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

NG wrote:Are you with Virgin media, Dj? I had lag, timing out issues & server disconnects & week ago, there wasn't anything mentioned by other players on the Steam dota forums but a lot of discussion on the VM broadband forums.

Windrunner may be a good alternative to the Drow, she has a great escape ability & sniping powershot, her ultimate isn't great till you have decent items that give you damage/health increase.


I am as it happens, but I think this is the fault of my landlord as they recently purchased a new router as the previous one kept disconnecting. However this one has made the internet stupidly slow at times.

I may give Windrunner a go and I have also been looking at the Dragon Kinght.
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Re: Dota 2

Postby brightroar » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:37 pm

Right so I've sort of got the hang of bot-matches, not been in one with real people yet, but...

Does it ever get interesting? Because it seems like for the first 10 minutes or so of each match all that happens is you level up off creeps, avoiding enemy heroes (or killing them if you get an opportunity), and staying out of range of their towers until you've got enough health that a couple of heroes and some creeps can take one out without you getting killed, and then you repeat further up the lane at the next tower, or swap to a new one if the enemy heroes come to defend.

I'm not sure where the fun is to be had?

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Re: Dota 2

Postby Mantis » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:48 pm

It's a lot more fun if you play in groups with peeps. The core gameplay itself pretty much never changes from what you just described.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby Zael » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:31 pm

Your early game changes depending on what kind of hero you pick. If you choose a carry then yeah your job is to stay in lane, get last hits, get the enemy if they overextend and avoid death at all costs. But other types have very different landing experiences. Supports have warding duty, stacking and pulling, and switching lanes to gank. If you pick a mid then you have a competition against your opposite number in last hitting and denying and then you get to roam around killing people after a bit because you're the highest level at that point.

Once the early game ends then matches tend to branch out. Some matches are constant 5v5's, others are smaller skirmishes, some are massively long, farm heavy games , others are quick pushes in under half and hour. You're always going to see a routine when you play with bots. Imagine playing counter strike solely with bots for example.
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Re: Dota 2

Postby brightroar » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:01 am

I don't know what the fuck a carry or a mid is, other than that they're role types, fuck knows what the words actually mean though.

I've been playing the naga chick, the banshee thing (death prophet?) and dragon knight with the most success, but even then I can't figure out where the fun is supposed to be. I tried a non-bot match last night as naga and spent half my time stunned or dead. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but it just feels like some of the classes are woefully unbalanced. And moving/regen takes forever even with gear and trees so if you lose half hp somewhere either you can die, leg it back to base (pointless) or stand around trying to regen like a chump, because once you're damaged you're basically useless.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby DjchunKfunK » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:44 am

Some heroes are very item specific so they can seem rather underpowered at early levels and you don't have the necessary items. So for example the Dragon Kinght is very slow, but you can make him faster by buying Power Treads. There are also items which help you to regain mana faster and some that allow you to regain health when attacking. A good example of a hero that is very item specific is the Drow. Whilst other characters are not as item specific and their abilities scale well throughout the game eg the Crystal Maiden. Also if you try to do something with a hero that they are no good at doing eg trying to take the nuke the opposition with a Crystal Maiden, then you are going to fail and die a lot. This is where the complexity comes in as each hero falls into a specific role and if you don't play the hero in a way that is conducive to that role then it isn't a whole lot of fun.

So for instance when Mantis says Carry this type of hero usually spends a large part of the starting game farming gold so that they can get the items they need to carry the fight in the latter part of the game. The job of these heroes is to kill off the opposition. To play these guys you need to be good at last hitting so you can maximise you gold per minute. The other roles are as follows.

Support:- There job is to backup their team by doing things like purchasing wards so that you can see where the enemy is on the map and getting items that give buffs to your whole team. Their job is to provide backup in fights and so whilst they rarely get many kills they can help the Carries to get kills with their support skills.

Initiators:- Beefy characters who start fights and have a few disablers like stuns and silences.

Gankers:- These guys usually take the middle lane as they are offensive characters and by going into the middle lane they can gain xp quickly and get a level advantage. They ten spend time roaming between lanes trying to gank the opposition.

Pushers:- Their job is to push lanes and threaten towers to help distract the opposition. These types usually have good early game skills, but tend to fall off towards the late game.

So I guess it is a bit like grouping in an MMO. Each class has it's role and if you don't play to take advantage of this role you wont have a lot of fun.

Most heroes fall into one of these categories with some being able to change roles depending on what kind of items you put on them. Any example of a hero like this is the Windrunner who can be a purely support class or you can spec them with items to be a carry.

Finally 'mid' is the name of the lane. Usually in a public game two heroes will go to the top and the bottom lane and one will go in the middle. If yo are having trouble whilst 'laning' as the early game is called try and pick the longer lane which for the Dire is the top lane and for the Radiant is the bottom one. Also try not to push to far into the opposition lane. If you find yourself moving towards their tower pull back a bit and let your creeps die off so that the action moves a bit closer to your tower where you will be a bit safer.

I have found that the easiest way to learn which characters need which items is to have a site like dotafire open at a guide to the class you are playing and then you can easily see which items you should buy and what skills when. Dotafire also allows you to search for guides to heroes who fill one of the roles which might help you find one more to your liking.

Finally the game can get a bit tiresome, especially at the start if you find yourself on the losing team a lot. This might also explain why you are not having a lot of fun. In the end I think the example of an MMO fits very well. DOTA 2 is like playing PvP in an MMO without the in-game rewards, although you do get random cosmetic drops. If you like PvPing in MMOs then you will enjoy DOTA 2, it's pretty much the same principle.

It might help if we all try and have a game together, especially if we can get a full 10 people, that way people can learn the ropes and it will be a lot more fun killing people you know. I've made a thread in the PW gaming sub-folder to try and get a game together so post there is you fancy it.
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Re: Dota 2

Postby Mantis » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:53 am

Buy teleportation scrolls if you feel like you're constantly spending all your time waiting on the outskirts of fights to regen your health. They let you teleport back to base or to any friendly tower on the map.

You shouldn't really be playing different characters in the same style, each hero has a certain thing they excel at whilst they might feel really underpowered in other areas. In terms of the heroes you've been using:

Naga Siren is quite a complex hero who starts out very weak in the early game but should scale really well as you level, though her primary role in battle is for stunning and disabling enemy heroes rather than outright trying to power her way through a fight. She's really item dependent too, so you need to have a good idea of what items you're buying with her.

Death Prophet is a straight up nuker who's spells are really good for pushing your creep lane in the later stages of the game. You shouldn't be pushing the lane early game. Don't stray to close to the enemy during a team fight, as a nuker it's never your job to initiate combat or be on the front line. Basically the role plays the same way it would in an MMO. Try to cast your AoE abilities at the opportune time when the enemy team is clumped up together.

Dragon Knight basically fulfills a similar role to Naga except with more focus on strength, very squishy early on, but has the potential to be an utter damage beast by late game. If you were going to choose between Naga or Dragon I'd go for the latter because he's got an easier skillset to play and tends to be way more durable during big fights.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby Zael » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:55 pm

This isn't really a game that you can pick up by just playing a few bot games. The mechanics of the game are pretty obscure and you need to learn them in order to have fun. Spending ten minutes to watch a video or two on YouTube should clear things up quite a bit.
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Re: Dota 2

Postby Cerzi » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:46 am

Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's not a game you can really pick up properly just by playing, at least not to begin with. There's a vast amount to know that is never going to be obvious just by playing (especially with bots, who won't yell at you and offer hate-filled advice), so you've gotta do a fair bit of homework. I've been playing for over a year now and it's without doubt the most rewarding multiplayer game I've ever played, and well worth the effort of getting in to, but it does take just that: effort. Unless you have a patient friend who's willing to explain every detail as you go along, you'll want to check increasingly high-level guides as you play and get better.

Even after playing for 100 hours there will be guides out there that will be incredibly helpful for advancing your game. After 1000 hours you'll still be picking up bits of knowledge here and there out of game, as there's just so many interesting interactions between different abilities and items that you simply can't know it all at once.

And yeah, at lower skill levels, knowledge is everything. The more you know the stronger you'll be. Twitch reactions, judgement calls, micro and all things skill-based only really become relevant much, much later.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby brightroar » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:48 am

I'll give it another shot later this week and see what I can do with it.

Fuck if I'm spending 1000 hours playing it though.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby DjchunKfunK » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:24 pm

You don't have to spend that long playing it to get good enough to enjoy it.
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Zael
 
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Re: Dota 2

Postby Zael » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:28 pm

The match making system is pretty good. When you first start playing, the people you're up against wont be as good as the bots at quite a lot of things. But yeah you need to know what the game is about first before you'll get much enjoyment.
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Re: Dota 2

Postby Scrappy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:13 am

Thanks to Quill18 on YouTube I've been playing this quite a bit. Only against bots, don't really know what's happening, but I;ve got the retreat, attack thing down and the last hit and denies.

Trying to find a hero I like. Zeus seems to be a nice balance between hardness and damage. Not sure exactly what the different types are tbh, but it's been a blast playing with some friends. Will try to get a few more bot games in before trying to play against players.

Complicated, but quite fun so far.

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Re: Dota 2

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:52 am

Zeus is classed as a nuker so responsible for dealing a large amount of damage over a short period of time. You can check a few posts back for a description of all the various roles of heroes in DOTA 2. I recommend that you start playing against people asap as there is only so much you can earn by playing against bots. It might be scary, but once you do it the game becomes a whole lot more fun.
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