Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Difficulty isn't all that the game has going for it, but mastery of the combat and the relentless pressure put upon you knowing that if you die you have to fight the enemies again, is what makes the game. Put in quick saves and where is the peril, where is the loss? It would be like adding quick saves to Spelunky or any other Roguelike, it dramatically alters the game.
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Sly Boots » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:43 pm

That's why I don't play roguelikes tbh, not my cup of tea, really.

But I agree about Dark Souls funnily enough, it is what it is, and what it is makes it what it is and shouldn't be compromised. But I think I'm probably done with that kind of thing now.
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:50 pm

DjchunKfunK wrote:Put in quick saves and where is the peril, where is the loss?


But I don't want peril and loss! Maybe a small to medium amount of peril intersected with occasional moments that are very perilous, but this is too much peril! I want to be able to explore Dark Souls with a number of predicaments. Is that too much to ask?
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:53 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
DjchunKfunK wrote:Put in quick saves and where is the peril, where is the loss?


But I don't want peril and loss! Maybe a small to medium amount of peril intersected with occasional moments that are very perilous, but this is too much peril! I want to be able to explore Dark Souls with a number of predicaments. Is that too much to ask?


Yes. :) The game is based on that fear as I said. Take it away and you have a different game.
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:57 pm

FFS. Before I attempt to play it again, I'm going to have to buy a selection of cheap electronic equipment that I can have on hand to destroy in frustration. :(
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Mantis » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:07 pm

If you don't want peril and loss then you're playing the wrong game I'm afraid. Part of the reason the industry is in such a state is because too many games try to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. If you don't like rouge likes then it's unlikely that you'll really get on with Dark Souls, and that's fine, not everyone has to like the same stuff; that's how we get diversity within the videogame industry. If you want to see what this game has to offer then fair enough, but if you suck at the combat, then just practice and get better. Complaining that it's too difficult only dilutes the experience for the demographic that absolutely fell in love with the punishing gameplay.

The difficulty of this game isn't a design flaw, it's its identity; it's the philosophy behind the entire experience. If that isn't for you and you don't understand why people think it's the best game ever, that's fine. You don't have to like Dark Souls, but you do have to respect it.

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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 pm

I completely understand why people love it. I completely disagree that adding a variety of difficulty levels would dilute it.

If an easier difficulty level was patched in today, would that spoil the experience you had with it?
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Zael » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:26 pm

I will never play Dark Souls again but I'd find it a shame if they added a lower difficulty level. Dark Souls is a brand and it stands out from other games. I don't want gaming to become so generic that every game can be played the same way. Not every game needs to market to everyone.
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:47 pm

So, elitism, right? That's the reason?
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Zael » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:01 pm

:roll:
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby katarn » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:02 pm

I agree it's not my kind of gaming these days too WB, it doesn't really appeal to me either. But I don't really have a problem with the odd game like DS going for uber-difficult pressurised gameplay.

Lest we forget, the original Baldurs Gate (which we both love) was kinda similar to Dark Souls in its early stages with its brutal and unforgiving nature - each enemy encounter had you on edge. Yet I would have hated to see that game changed to something more forgiving, the sense of genuine danger was part of what made it great.

Plus there's quite a range of 3rd person hack&slashers that tone the difficulty down, so it's not such a big problem for DS to go in a different direction.

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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:07 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think there is plenty of room for uber-difficult games, but I've not seen a single argument to convince me that making it more accessible to players who want less of a challenge takes anything away from players who do want that challenge. And eye-rolling isn't going to change that.

katarn wrote:Lest we forget, the original Baldurs Gate (which we both love) was kinda similar to Dark Souls in its early stages with its brutal and unforgiving nature - each enemy encounter had you on edge. Yet I would have hated to see that game changed to something more forgiving, the sense of genuine danger was part of what made it great.


You've handily proved my point by forgetting that BG had a difficulty slider! :D And it obviously didn't dilute your experience, or mine (I always play BG on core, for what it's worth).
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby katarn » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:14 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
katarn wrote:Lest we forget, the original Baldurs Gate (which we both love) was kinda similar to Dark Souls in its early stages with its brutal and unforgiving nature - each enemy encounter had you on edge. Yet I would have hated to see that game changed to something more forgiving, the sense of genuine danger was part of what made it great.


You've handily proved my point by forgetting that BG had a difficulty slider! :D And it obviously didn't dilute your experience, or mine (I always play BG on core, for what it's worth).

Well, for a stats-based game I guess it's very easy to alter a few calculations when it comes to BG.

But I get the impression Dark Souls was rigidly designed from the ground up to operate a certain way. I imagine the coding would have needed a complete overhaul right from the start if they were to change the way the game worked. Probably wasn't in their philosophy at the time.

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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby DjchunKfunK » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:16 pm

You can't just slap a difficulty slider in, the game would have to be totally rebalanced with a completely different difficulty curve. It would require a complete redesign and would undoubtedly effect the core game.
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Re: Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition (PC) 24th August

Postby Wrathbone » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:21 pm

You're missing the point - assuming they had the time, resources, etc, to add in a lower difficulty which was all wonderfully balanced, that would not dilute your experience of the game as it is on the current level of difficulty. Aside from it being arguably impractical to implement at this point, I don't see any philosophical problem with it.
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